Welcome back Mike! How’s AOS 3 treating you?
I want to start this with the fact that AOS is outstanding and well done to all those involved. This blows the history of fantasy wargaming out of the water! Why? They have given every army something to play for and they have made tactical thinking part of the game, rather than just smash in the middle and slog it out until there is only one army left standing.
I am 8 games into this glorious edition and each and every game has been an exercise in exciting tactical gameplay. Thinking what Battle Tactic to use: should I go for a sure thing now or save the sure thing for a later turn? Who do I make battleline – If my best combat unit is also a battleline unit, will it make the grand strategy Hold the Line harder to achieve? Am I taking enough heroes? What battalions help the list? And on it goes, the decisions keep on coming.
List building has never been more fun and diverse: for me, we are at the peak of wargaming.
Glad you’re enjoying it mate. What are you running right now?
I entered into AOS 3 full steam ahead with my Ogors because it’s what I know best, and to be honest I find it hard to move away from them. I have been playing Ogors for a long time, going back to fantasy days. I remember the day the GW staffer in Nottingham introduced me to Ogors, using the original battalion versus the Empire half of the 6th ed starter box. I was all in.
I then proceeded to lose almost every game because everyone was a dwarf player or a vamps player that just cut me down before I could do a tap. I own quite a few armies but to be honest I would only really consider myself a player of a handful: Ogors, Tzeentch, Sons of Behemat and Deepkin. I am all over Destruction lately and went all in on Kruleboyz because they remind me so much of the OG Orcs from that 6th ed starter set.
Ogors get down in your blood hey. So what’s the Warhammer scene like in Ireland?
The one thing I love about Warhammer in Ireland is that for the most part, the players play the armies they like and actually want to collect, as opposed to getting on the new hotness. I know this isn’t unique to Ireland but what it means is that our events have top-class players playing all sorts of armies and you are not turning up to a tourney where the top 10 will be LRL, Seraphon and whatever other bullshit is on the menu. It makes for a much more enjoyable experience at events, especially for the more casual gamers.
Unfortunately our scene is still quite small but we do manage to get events of about 20-ish people when COVID is not rearing its ugly head. We travel up to Northern Ireland quite a lot to give our neighbours some shit but it is always an enjoyable experience.
It should be noted that I, a Southerner, was King in the North 2 years running (won their annual Christmas two-dayer twice, including once with pre-book Gutbusters, fucking eat it nordies!!!), and only for the fact that I didn’t turn up year 3 I allowed a less worthy player claim the crown. There is a bit of a rivalry between the two scenes but all in good spirit. We are definitely tested to our limits with our border buddies as they are all top-tier players with an incredibly competitive scene. Tournaments with them are always much more difficult.
By and large we don’t many players who pay to win, ie buy whatever is top of the pile, although there are one or two who will actively avoid the lower half of the pile. But to be honest, to each their own. Nobody wants to play a game that is a loss at list creation. Neither the player with the S-Tier list nor the player with the D-Tier list enjoy a game like that. So it’s a good thing for the scene, as we end up having a mixed bag of factions at almost every event.
King in the North! Love it. So what are you cooking up for AOS 3?
To be honest I couldn’t tell you. I have great plans for Big Waaagh and have more recently decided I want a Soulblight army for all the werewolves. But if I was a betting man I imagine I will still end up with at least 50% of my games this year being played with Ogors – I just can’t seem to move away from them.
Not gonna lie, I came close to jumping in on Soulblight myself, but instead I’m painting up Kragnos right now – what are your thoughts on him?
Kragnos!!! Love this guy and when his rules dropped I was pretty excited to see them. He obliterates things quite comfortably. The GHB Battlepack has a lot of buffs and rules for Monsters, so we should see them everywhere in the new edition. Roar is such a good ability that even small and cheap Monsters have a place as a support unit to stop other units using All Out Attack / Defence for example. As a result I can see him being quite common in Destruction lists. We finally have a God model that can sort out those Archaon and Nagash lists!
His one glaring issue for me is lack of keywords to benefit from the Destruction army allegiance abilities. Like if you look at Archaon, he has a dictionary down the end of his warscroll but he is also part of a main faction. Kragnos has no faction and no keywords so for me I struggle to see him taking the place of potentially two Stonehorns. For one, it’s 20 models vs 5 for Objectives, which is huge in an army that already has low numbers. And it goes back to my original point that I find it hard to move away from Ogors: I just love an Ogor army, and to me Kragnos is a stranger. For that reason I will be waiting before I include him in a Mawtribes list….he doesn’t even have a gut.
Beer-bellied Kragnos, that’s a hobby opportunity right there! Now how are your beloved Ogors shaping up in 3rd Ed?
I have been so busy writing lists lately but one thing I have found is that Gutbusters took a gut punch in this edition. Gluttons, an already struggling unit, have had the final nail in the coffin. Coherency rules, a hefty points increase and wide access to 3+ saves on units has made them all but useless. The idea of 18 on the board seems like fun, but not very good.
If you are in search of a Gutbuster Battleline on the cheap, then Leadbelchers are your friend. They still don’t do a whole lot in terms of damage, but they are cheaper than Gluttons per model and come in 4s. They have far more utility with their guns and rend so they’re just a clear winner between the two. However, the real big winners are Ironguts. Even at a massive 245 points for 4 they are still top notch – I won’t write a list without 8 in the army. They are too good to pass up and count as Battleline for the Gutbusters. I won’t trudge through the rest of the Gutbusters units in detail: to be honest going into 3.0 there isn’t a whole lot new to talk about. Ironblasters are still only good in Underguts, Maneaters are still pretty useless and the characters are as needed for their roles.
Beastclaw got some serious improvements however. This faction was already thriving but now in a Monster haven it has surpassed its limits. All the Monsters now have access to the Monstrous Rampage table:
My take on this: ROAR!!
Roar is incredible with the ability to turn off All Out Attack / Defence, or any other command abilities used in the combat phase. As well as this, the Beastrider units can count as “units” when making up your core battalions since they replace their Behemoth battlefield role for Battleline.
Toward the end of AOS2 I was messing around with 6 Thundertusks (3 Huskards and 3 Beastriders), and was actually getting some good results with them. Now it appears we may actually start seeing some Thundertusks in AOS3 with the buff to Priests.
They are still quite pricey, and no longer get to chant two prayers, but being able to dispel endless spells and interact with other priests makes them a lot more appealing as a choice. With the increase in points of Frost Sabres and the inability to reinforce them past 4 (or 6 if Icebrow general), I think we may see less Hunters but that’s just my speculation now. Frost Sabres are massively overcosted for what they do and to be honest I think Gorgers are just a better option. Mournfang are now my battle line of choice in all my lists. They are such a points-efficient unit: tanky, fast and potentially a lot of output even in units of 2.
Well you definitely don’t see many Gorgers around, but you are well known for utilizing every aspect of Ogors in toolkit builds. Do you have a list for us today?
Here is the list I will be running to kick off AOS 3: it will be tweaked, but I am enjoying it so far and actually won a One Day event up the North last weekend with it!
Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
– Mawtribe: Winterbite
– Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
– Triumphs: Indomitable
Slaughtermaster (140) in Battle Regiment
– Lore of Gutmagic: Ribcracker
Frostlord on Stonehorn (430) in Battle Regiment
– Command Trait: Wintertouched
– Artefact: Frostfang
– Mount Trait: Metalcruncher
4 x Mournfang Pack (320) in Hunters of the Heartlands
– Gargant Hackers
– Reinforced x 1
2 x Mournfang Pack (160) in Battle Regiment
– Gargant Hackers
2 x Mournfang Pack (160) in Battle Regiment
– Gargant Hackers
8 x Ironguts (490) in Hunters of the Heartlands
– Reinforced x 1
3 x Maneaters (180) in Hunters of the Heartlands
3 x Icefall Yhetees (120) in Battle Regiment
Hunters of the Heartlands
Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Let’s start at the top: I have gone for Winterbite because my list doesn’t really benefit from any of the other subfactions like Boulderhead or Bloodgullet, so with the amount of shooting out there I want to make sure I don’t get shot off the board turn 1! The way I see it, none of the other sub factions will give me a huge benefit and it was either this or go factionless…which is something I will probably try as there are some solid Command Traits to give to a Frostlord. Nomadic Raider gives the whole model rerolls to wound in enemy territory, which is super strong since there are very few ways to buff wound rolls. You can also make a Frostlord on Stonehorn a Priest which could be useful especially for dispelling endless spells.
Hold the Line is a great Grand Strategy for this list because the Mournfang are incredibly resilient. Early game I use the 2s as screens, and then run them away as far as possible if they survive. The Triumph I include just for habit, so I don’t forget.
My next iteration of this list is 60 points down to get the triumph as often as possible: +1 to wound unconditionally is super strong! As I have already mentioned, I would never leave home without 8 Ironguts and they have been the MVP in this list so far. Taking huge charges, and taking down the biggest foes. These guys don’t really need All Out Attack and I will usually save it for my Mournfang on the charge, but when you absolutely need something dead and they get the charge off, All Out Attack combined with Indomitable just lets you remove a unit with ease.
After plenty of games the Maneaters are still just shit. 5+ save and only 1 shooting attack. I would rather have 2 more Mournfnag or another unit of Yhetees. I mainly used run and charge on them as I wanted some additional mobility but they would often hit enemies, do about 4 wounds and then end up dying in return. I tried them as flanking units, objective cappers, character hunters and screens….they were best as screens. In light of that they will be transformed into a unit of Yhetees and the remaining points left out for a potential triumph.
Yhetees! I farking love Yhetees – have done since the book first dropped
Speaking of Yhetees, after listening to a fellow Mawtribes player Big Stu talk about them, it got me intrigued by the unit. Whilst I don’t see them as a damage unit or much of a threat at all they have been a great utility piece:
- Their base move of 9” is great, especially when they are stuck in combat and you need to get away
- Their ability to pile in 6” makes them a great support unit to stop your opponent moving about the board freely
- Their -1 to hit makes them surprisingly survivable
- They can throw in some decent chip damage, or catch a vulnerable character hiding out behind the front line.
Their main function for me has been to scout the board and give me a throwaway unit for Objectives on Turn 1. I’ve been experimenting with taking first turn in my games, where I claim some early points and aim to get a Round One lead. What I’m doing here is manufacturing a scenario where I can give the early double turn to my opponent while they can’t do anything meaningful with it, leaving an opportunity for me to take a double turn back when it counts.
This strategy worked really well over the 3 games at the event, albeit in a couple of scenarios losing priority on certain turns could have cost me the game (whoops!). Again, I got this idea from things Stu had said on his chat with the Honest Wargamer. Cheers Stu! All in all I am happy with the direction of the list, even though it is what I would call “Gut-Light”. It plays well and is more than just a run forward and smash army.
It definitely looks like it would give you interesting games and a lot of big decisions. What are the strengths and weaknesses of the army?
The real strength in this list is that it is deceptively mobile while packing a serious punch. The combined speed of the Mournfang, Yhetees and Stonehorn gives the opponent enough to worry about to allow the Ironguts to either get into position, or set up camp on a prime objective.
In the GHB 2021 Battlepack, the Slaughtermaster gets great use out of the Metamorphisis spell:
Not only can he count as a Monster for scoring bonus VPs on Battletactics, but the Monster keyword brings extra buffs in Ogors. First of all they get to count as 10 models for capturing Objectives, and secondly they smash out impact mortal wounds on a 4+ after they charge. So for me this is a super awesome spell! I am interested to see what other armies have extra buffs to Monsters that can synergise well with this!
The weakness of the army is its late game. My aim in a game is to get ahead enough on turns 1-3 that I can fall off 4 and 5 and not worry too much. I always seem to be in the same position turns 4 and 5: less stuff on the board than my opponents. We don’t have summoning or any way to bring models back, and it seems that a lot of other armies have either an abundance of ward saves, summoning or healing back to units of some sort. So the late game can be quite tough.
Fair enough – hopefully you’ve already kicked the shit out of them with the Ironguts by that stage. Any changes you’re considering to the list beyond dumping the Maneaters?
I have considered adding an endless spell such as Cogs or Lifeswarm, but we will see how we get on 60 points down first.
I also have a bunch of other lists I want to try including one list with 2 Huskards on Thundertusk and 3 Ironblasters! I have really gone back to the drawing board with my lists because what I used to run either doesn’t work anymore, or the points changes are so extensive that the list has changed too much.
All I can say is I have never been more pumped to play Warhammer, specifically to play Warhammer with Ogor Mawtribes!
Good luck to all you pussies running Teclis, Kroak, Nagash etc. You will all end up in my pot.